Dark days over for DRC

Tendai Manzvanzvike The Interview
Days after the Democratic Republic of Congo security forces with the assistance of regional and international forces vanquished the M23 rebels, our Foreign Editor Tendai Manzvanzvike (TM) spoke to DRC Ambassador to Zimbabwe, who is also Dean of the Diplomatic Corps, Ambassador Mwapanga Mwanananga (MM) on peace and security in the DRC

TM: Your Excellency, the Democratic Republic of Congo is an interesting country — big, very rich in both mineral and natural resources.
MM: And human resources too!

TM:  Has a rich cultural heritage and also produced luminaries like Patrice Lumumba, one of the doyens of pan-Africanism. But, the DRC has never known peace in the past 50 years. Why?
MM: It’s very difficult. Part of the reason is that what will make the strength of the DRC also makes its weaknesses. The DRC is a very diverse country both in terms of ethnicity, climate and in terms of resource endowment. So, you can only rule the DRC by coalition.

TM: By coalition?
MM: Yes, because there is no majority. Every ethnic group is a minority, so you have to craft a coalition of several groups and if one group gets fed up or it is easily bought by some crook in these Western countries it can walk out. In the DRC, even the first government of Patrice Lumumba did not win the majority.

TM: They did not?
MM: No. They were just the biggest party. They had to have a coalition and that’s where (Joseph) Kasavubu, our first president who comes from the far western part of the country where the capital city is, because if Lumumba did not have a coalition, he would have had a difficult time controlling the capital city. That’s how Kasavubu became the first president. So, there are a lot of things that make the DRC very unstable sometimes.

TM: But at the moment, do you have that kind of structure that you’re talking about or it has been the missing link that successive leaders have not been able to come up with a coalition in order to rule and have peace?
MM: The coalition was always there but the coalition in itself is always a weak type of government structure. You’ve had your first coalition government, isn’t it? You should know with that set-up that there is very little you can do. Yours was a coalition of only three parties.  But in the DRC you’ve a coalition made up of dozens of parties, and when someone thinks that they are not happy, they can create problems. This was a structure that was created by the Belgians. They bought off a few Congolese leaders with peanuts to betray their own country. So, what do you do?

TM: So, you are saying that the ideals that Patrice Lumumba stood for, people no longer desire to go back to that pan-African mould where you are united under common goals and objectives?
MM: Pan-Africanism is a very good idea, but pan-Africanism is like all of us going in the same direction and when you embrace pan-Africanist ideas, you still have to be strong in your own country. An example is that if President Mugabe was not strong here at home, he would not have sent troops to Mozambique or to the DRC. It means he is a pan-Africanist. He still has a strong backing in the country in order to project his pan-African ideas outside. That’s one. Second, once you go outside, the other Africans that you’re working with have to be trustworthy. The late father of our president (Laurent Kabila) was actually a pan-Africanist. He worked with Lumumba as a youth, and when he worked with Rwanda, Uganda and so forth, he thought that (President Yoweri) Museveni was a real pan-Africanist. He thought that (late Libyan leader) Muammar Gaddafi was a true pan-Africanist. But what happened? They stabbed him in the back. They colluded with our enemies to destabilise the DRC. So, pan-Africanism is not a panacea in itself if the partners you are working with are in cahoots with your enemies.

TM: So, what would be the way forward where it looks like the picture you are giving is that among Africans, it’s easy to be bought off, divided and turned against each other? Even though you might trust your brothers and sisters, they can still backstab you? What’s the way forward?
MM:  I don’t think that we need to go back on the pan-Africanist stance. We just keep trying until we find good partners. For example, what happened when Rwanda and Uganda colluded and tried to make life hard for us, Zimbabwe, Angola and Namibia as pan-Africanists helped us? But having said that, damage had already been done, and we had to correct that. So, once you trust someone, and that someone betrays you, you will have a setback. But that doesn’t mean that you sit back. You have to start all over again.

TM: When President Joseph Kabila took over from his father he was young and people thought that because of the problems he would not last long in power, but he has. That was 2001 and he has been in power for 12 years. What is it that has made him last this long? I know there are problems he has had to contend with every time and the DRC has been always an issue at different forums. But, what is it that has made him survive this long?
MM: First of all, I think that despite his age, he has the leadership qualities. Secondly, he put in place the right kind of policies that were favourable to the people. And, thirdly, he has good friends on whom he can count on. This is very important because (the late Libyan leader) Muammar Gaddafi, for example, was on his own because he did not have friends on the continent that he could count on. So, these are the three elements that have made President Kabila survive.

TM: All these are friends on the continent?
MM:  Yes, of course! More so, most of these                    friends are in the Sadc region. But, outside the Sadc region also he has friends.

TM:  But despite that, fighting continues with the M23 rebels.
MM:  We have crossed the M23 issue. Right now, they are no longer a force to reckon with anymore and I don’t think that (President Paul) Kagame is going to try it again because right now he is fighting for his own survival.

TM: How about Uganda?
MN: I think that (President) Museveni is a political animal. He knows the world systems and right now I think he knows that if they continue disturbing the peace in the region it will get back to them. President Kabila survived these 12 years and now he is getting very strong. He has been able to rebuild DRC’s security services. We have an international brigade; we have help from Tanzania, Malawi, and now South Africa, countries that the West has not quarrelled with. I think this year alone we will export about 600 tonnes of copper that will be transported through the Tanzanian border.

TM: Which amounts to about how much in monetary terms?
MM: Let’s not talk about money.  I am talking about business. Six hundred tonnes of copper, that’s a lot of business that can pass through the Tanzanian border. What does Rwanda produce? Six hundred tonnes of coffee? What is that? So, in terms of business Rwanda has got to know that it is better off being on our side.
Besides, Kagame has been trying to infiltrate into the countries with his security and intelligence but he has failed in Tanzania. They said if you do not put your act together in the DRC, we’re going to throw you out like we threw out Idi Amin. Rwanda is pretty much boxed and Kagame has to face his own people and in this battle he has lost a lot of soldiers and officers. And his people are asking why he has brought them all these wars. It’s the same thing that happened to Mobuto (Sese Seko). He was making wars all around and he had to face his own music.

TM:  Now, at the joint summit in South Africa on November 4, the Joint Sadc and International Conference on the Great Lakes Region (ICGLR) Summit urged all signatories to the Peace, Security and Co-operation Framework for the DRC and the Region to implement commitments made towards implementation of the Agreement. First of all the M23 rebels like you say are finished and there are reports that between 1 500 and 1 700 rebels had surrendered to Uganda including their leader Sultani Makenga. Is that true?
MM: Well I don’t want to confirm that. We know that these so-called rebels, in fact, most of them what they were trying to do was to claim that the north- eastern part of the DRC is part of Rwanda or Uganda or just make it  an independent state like South Sudan. Museveni was instrumental in that.

TM:  The summit also urged for the handover of negative forces to their countries of origin within the spirit of the UN Framework for Peace, Security and Co-operation for DRC and the Region. How feasible and practical is this? Do you see Uganda complying with this call?
MM: What we want is for all those that are Congolese to return to the DRC.

TM: And be tried in DR Congo?
MM:  Exactly and in the end be integrated into society. None of these rebels can speak one of our 400 ethnic languages. They speak Kinyarwanda. There is no group in Congo that speaks Kinyarwanda. So, these are not Congolese.

TM: So now, where will they be tried?
MM:  What I am saying is they have got to be sent back home and we vet them to see who is Congolese and who is not. If there are any Congolese who do not have criminal records, they should be taken care of and given jobs.

TM: Others would argue that in terms of financing both the weapons and money it’s a bigger picture with outsiders also involved in this.
MM: Of course they are. We know that. None of us makes any of those arms. They come from outside and somebody has got to pay for them.

TM: The African Union Commissioner for Peace and Security also remarked that the summit was “trying to write a new page in the tragic history of this region”. Since you are also the dean of the diplomatic corps, did the summit succeed and when we see that Mozambique we have escalation of violence”?
MM:  I think you should not worry much about Mozambique.

TM: We should not?
MM:  What you need to understand is that all these things are not done in isolation. There is a master plan. You have to understand that. If the DRC is weakened, then they can use the DRC to stabilise the region. For the Mozambican question, the things that are happening now were calculated before the elections of 31st July (in Zimbabwe). They had given their assurance through (MDC-T leader) Morgan Tsvangirai that if he won, they will help him out. Then, they told him that they would assist him to get rid of the famine. But unfortunately for them, they could not get rid of Zanu-PF.

Now that they did not manage to change anything, chances of (Renamo leader Afonso) Dhlakama doing anything in Mozambique are next to zero. I don’t think we should worry much about Mozambique, because in order to do anything in the country, you need a territory that will serve as back-up. And Dhlakama knows it, just like Savimbi did. Once Mobutu Sese Seko was gone, his back-up territory was gone. He knew that his days were numbered and in no time he was taken away.

TM: But, right now nobody knows where he is.
MM: Who?

TM: Dhlakama!
MM: Don’t worry about him. He has lost his cause. He is finished. Who will give him the back-up? Tell me! In order for a rebellion to succeed you need a back-up. Tell me which country in the region is going to give him that?

TM: We’re getting to the end of the year and a lot happened in Zimbabwe and in the region. What were the issues that seized the diplomatic community most? What are your views about where Zimbabwe is coming from and where it is going?
MM: I think you have to look at this country from the year 2000. In fact, when you got independent in 1980, you had legislation where whites were elected on a separate roll and they blocked any legislation especially on the land issue. Since 1999, 2000 you have gone through a lot and I think what we have now is a tested and tried Zanu-PF, which is much stronger and which is now able to understand that the opposition is there and it’s not the devil; they are just like us and they can have ideas. However, as the majority party we have won the elections, we have to manage the country for millions of people, no matter where they come from. I was impressed with Professor Jonathan Moyo, the Minister of Information, Media and Broadcasting Services, when he met with the opposition media. To me, we are having a new dispensation, which can only help this country because before that inclusive Government, people were too afraid of the other side. Now I think things will work out better for this country.

TM: How about this stumbling block — the illegal economic sanctions? How does Zimbabwe move forward?
MM: I think it’s time that Zimbabwe understands that there will always be people out there who don’t like it. But still, there are some things which you can do even with your enemy. If there is something good or positive for your people, do it whether it comes from the enemy. So what? Zanu-PF has friends even in the West and they have got to know how to work with those friends and move forward.

TM: And, how much business is there between the DRC and Zimbabwe?
MM: I am afraid not much. It looks like our people do not understand the importance of doing business together. Some are turning to South Africa and other English-speaking countries, while we turn to our former colonial master, France. But, we have a lot in common and we have to make your people and our business people understand the benefits of bilateral trade. There is little movement of goods between us. You should tell your people that there is a big market out there in the DRC and they should take advantage of it.

TM:  Thank you Your Excellency!
MM: You are welcome.