Temba comes to town, wants to come home

Tichaona Zindoga THE INTERVIEW

Controversial politician and businessman Temba Mliswa (TM), who was last year fired from zanu-pf for being part of a cabal seeking to unseat President Mugabe, has lately fallen out with individuals linked to the People First project led by ousted Vice President Joice Mujuru. In an interview this week Mliswa poured his heart out and begged for forgiveness from zanu-pf while also rubbishing People First and its leader, among other issues. Our Political Editor Tichaona Zindoga (TZ), began by asking him about an outfit he formed last week, Youth Advocacy for Reform and Democracy (Yard)…

TZ: This is probably your first major project since your expulsion from Zanu-PF. I would like to know: why not a political party led by Temba Mliswa?

TM: My energy is more useful, my experience as a mentor is more useful – as (previously) an MP, as a Central Committee member, as a provincial member – in giving it to the youth, to be a mentor across the board, across the political divide so that there is no fighting but complementing what the political parties are doing.

When we met at Yard, I realised that it is the political parties who will benefit but there is no forum, there is no platform where political parties are meeting and expressing what the agenda for the youth is. They are basically discussing what is good for the party not the nation. And this platform then sets the tone in terms of what should be done for the youths and they take it to the party.

So it is always the country that should be first. Youths are now turning to be vanguards of their country not vanguards for their parties.

TZ: But you are very much a political person and are identifiable with politics. Are we not seeing you priming yourself for the future launch of a political outfit, honestly? As a matter of fact earlier reports stated that you had said you were quitting politics and concentrating more on your businesses but you haven’t really gone under the radar?

TM: I think what is equally critical for you to understand is that I have been offered to join political parties at a higher level. Equally if People First happens to be a party, right now it’s speculation – if they registered to be a party – I was one of the people they could have targeted and it would equally have been my choice whether to join them or not. But there are already parties that are registered as we speak that are talking to me, but I have equally told them that I cannot join politics and it is important for them to respect that.

Yes, your question is a good question, but I am also patriotic and there is always work I must do for my people and for my country. This is something I am doing to serve my generation. I was supposed to be a Member of Parliament since 2013 and let’s be honest, Tichaona, I have energy. I have to channel my energy somewhere and I have decided on being a mentor for the young people and offering a service for my generation to another generation and I am hoping they will be able to do that.

So even if you are a businessman at the end of the day there are some activities and I’ve said this is up politically but these are lessons which I have learnt as a politician which I believe I should share and I should try and guide the youth to understanding their country and playing a part.

TZ: Perhaps the biggest question is why haven’t you joined the People First. Already we are hearing the likes of Rugare Gumbo and Jim Kunaka disowning you. How has it come to this because we thought the People First project would be yours for the taking?

TM: You’ve got to understand two things which I will tell you. When you are equally starting a business you want key people. You want somebody to do finance who is qualified to do finance. You want somebody who is equally able to also deliver in terms of marketing to find the people to be able to sell this product to. You are also looking at people in the workshop who will be able to lead the goings on there in terms of the machinery and so forth.

So there is expertise. One thing which you cannot take away from me is that I work hard, I am passionate and I think whenever I do something, I do it with my heart. I say the truth which is a rare thing among our people and they don’t believe in confrontation.

When they were making their (People First) project, they believed that Temba would come on site because quite clearly he is related to Didymus Mutasa who is his uncle. They also believed in Jabulani Sibanda, who is effective in terms of working. So if you look at two people who would make this organisation gain credibility it was myself and Jabulani Sibanda.

I was very clear even with my uncle Didymus Mutasa from the onset that I wanted to work with the youth. I equally argued with him that I did not even believe if they were to start a party when I was advising him, Mai (Joice) Mujuru was the person to lead the party. I equally said to him but you are even cleaner and you are more bold and experienced than her and you are more senior than her, why can’t you lead the party?

My uncle did not believe in himself leading the party. But I said “You know, if there is any one person who has been very outspoken it is you and I think if you don’t want to be the President of the nation it should not stop you from leading a party. So, if you lead the party you can equally have a special congress where you can then nominate (who stands for elections).

At that point in time there had been a lot of people who had been suspended and expelled from Zanu-PF who did not know what to do, who were looking for a home. They were not able to come up with that but I was very clear. It was also important from my perspective that I was never part of a faction and you must understand that and this is what people must understand. This is the reason why I cannot join any party. I loved Zanu-PF and I did everything for Zanu-PF. Zanu-PF kicked me out of the party, I never got myself of out the party. I suffered a lot being a Zanu-PF member, all my arrests were politically motivated. I have been to court over 70 times because of my politics.

Before I was in politics I was never before any court. I could not even finish my studies in England because of what I stood for and what I did for Zanu-PF. I supported the land reform programme with people like Bright Matonga and with people like Mutumwa Mawere even inviting them to my university, Luton University, to talk about the land reform. We defended the country because we believed it was our country. We even set up Zim Alliance in London where Matonga was the information and publicity secretary and I was the chairperson so that we could deal with any issues which attacked our country. It’s equally important that people understand that…

I enjoyed my politics, I was on the rise and it was cut short. If I was a Member of Parliament who sustained my living through the money that we get paid from Parliament, the allowances, where would I be today Tichaona?

That’s one thing I want you to understand. It’s a merciless decision, it’s a cruel decision, it’s an evil decision. They (Mujuru loyalists) were sitting in that meeting and no one ever objected to my suspension, I was the first provincial chairperson to be suspended. And maybe they thought they were safe but you know with the way it is they are equally out.

But my point is that, and they must be honest as leaders and say, listen we missed an opportunity to be able to represent the truth at the time. I don’t believe I would ever associate with leadership that does not take the principle and the courage to stand by what is right.

So what guarantee do I have that if they set up another party and I join them, I will equally be expelled and they will not say anything? As a matter of fact, I don’t believe that their decision (to form a party) is well thought out, I think it’s an emotional decision.

So if it’s true that this country is about us being a better people and being a better people means the political party being stable, why can’t the political party extend a hand of reconciliation and say a lot happened?

Especially for me, I wrote a letter to say but my suspension was not fair. As much as people would say what they want, I wrote because I did not believe I had done anything wrong. I believe that it was in the interest of the party that if I am wrong it (disciplinary action) is done properly and I go back to the people who elected me and say I am no longer in the party because I was found guilty of A,B,C,D.

I have never been given an opportunity to explain my side other than talking to you in an interview, that’s the only time that I talk about that. I would equally like to appear before any committee as a matter of principle which would equally be good for the party, for justice to prevail so that I give my side of the story.

Why can’t all those suspended or expelled be given an opportunity to give their side of the story? And if the truth prevails they will not stand the test but if it is also found and investigated and the investigation comes out that they were innocent a reconciliation is done and we are not saying I must go back as provincial chairman, but the party would have exhausted all means to unite people and so forth.

TZ: Just to hold you there. My impression from what you have just said and from earlier sentiments in other publications is that you remain Zanu-PF or a huge part of you remains Zanu-PF. Would you readily, say you if were offered some (olive branch), would you be able to walk back into the Zanu-PF tent?

TM: Listen, to me there are two different issues here we must understand. The party is bigger than any individual and if the party is bigger than any individual why don’t they create a roadmap of bringing sanity into the party by correcting what they did not do properly? And in correcting what they did not do properly they also include me because I was also one of the people.

And let the decision be mine when I have been exonerated or found guilty. If found guilty I also have the right to appeal or to say “I’m sorry I was found guilty”. So the decision must be mine. The other thing that I also have to say about the party is that I joined the party because I believed in the party, I believed in Zanu-PF, I believed in pro-black movement. If you see historically I was involved in the change of rugby in this country. It was white dominated and I fought so that blacks play a part. Cricket equally, I am the one who ensured that there are eight provinces to ensure that our people participated.

So I was always pro-black and any activity I took part in sport was to be involved in minority sports so that my own people could also enjoy that. So Zanu-PF resonated a lot with what I believed in, in that black people must come in. I also believe that they had also done something which would have made them an invincible party and would not lose them an election, by allowing young people to get in. There were a lot of young people who got in, you see, like Makhosini Hlongwane, myself, Anastasia Ndlovu, Mayor Wadyajena even the (Kudzi) Chipangas of this world.

These were young people and you could see the party was going somewhere. And the way we do our politics is different.

TZ: Just to bring you back to the question; do you consider yourself or your heart belonging to Zanu-PF?

TM: Listen, the truth of the matter is I never thought I would be expelled from Zanu-PF and I think being the person that I am I still believe that my case would be handled in a manner of a party which I know which has compassion. Tichaona, the most forgiving man is the President. Some of the people who advocated my expulsion have been forgiven, for corrupt activities, for many things but why not forgive me?

What is it that I did that would call for my expulsion? It’s emotional and I speak with emotion because I was in it full time. I did (belong to the party) because I believed in the party, I loved the party, I love the President and for one to just, one meeting to get expelled, it’s emotional…I believe that the people who fought for this country were forgiving. I mean Zanu-PF forgave the white man whom they went to war with and killed. I am not a white man, I never even went to war and killed anyone. But they fail to forgive me!

TZ: And you say you are a victim of circumstance?

TM: A true victim, I am prepared to go before any meeting today and I am prepared to be judged fairly and be told that, “Mliswa you did this”. Yes, I am very outspoken but the party also allows people to express their views and so forth. But I have been outspoken because I had a mandate from the people. Whatever I did had a mandate from the people.

TZ: Going back to the so-called People First project, what in your view is the reason why it has not formed structures and is nothing beyond pronouncements in the private media?

TM: You see the truth of the matter is you are giving prominence to something which is not even registered. I mean Jim Kunaka said what he said representing People First, as who? I tried to go around looking for the constitution, they have no constitution, they have no office. Who is the leader of the party? It’s speculative, it’s in the paper.

And the truth of the matter is I have never known of a party which has no leader and which has no address. If you ask me where Yard is I will tell you, 3 Danfern Road in Borrowdale, that’s where you find Yard. You see for me to waste time on people speculating on a newspaper party, on a social media party, I am not like that. I believe politics is going to the ground. Even the BUILD document that they put together, who endorsed it?

They are saying that Zanu-PF is very dictatorial. At least one thing that Zanu-PF does is call for a conference and a congress and it makes resolutions. They (People First) did not even call for a conference to hear from the people and for the people to endorse it. So they still have the same tendencies they accuse Zanu-PF of having. It’s in their blood and they cannot take it out.

Tell me who endorsed it (BUILD)? There are a lot of unemployed people in this country, economists, I can go on the streets and pick one up, he will put together another document for me. But who will then sell the document to the people? I am in Hurungwe West, people in Hurungwe West don’t know People First, there is no structure, there is no chairperson who is able to disseminate information. It’s a social media network project which is speculated. You cannot be playing with people’s minds.

People then misunderstand me and say I am MDC or I like (Morgan) Tsvangirai when I say he is the biggest opposition leader in this country. And I have said to them if there is to be a coalition, politically you are contributing some constituencies and which constituencies does People First have?

David Butau is People First, why did he not stand as People First in Mbire? Bhasikiti was Mwenezi MP and he claims to be People First but he is allowing his constituency to go to Zanu-PF but he is People First. I have never understood such politics. Politics is about people. If they talk about having 100 MPs on their side all it requires is for them to join hands with MDC, resign from Parliament, call for by-elections and they stand as People First and let’s see whether they will win or not. And if they win those 100 seats that’s already having a significant number that can change the events in Parliament.

TZ: But do you think Joice Mujuru has the willpower and the capacity to lead this project?

TM: No, she is not. From the onset I have always respected her as Vice President and Second Secretary of the party, her office. Are you understanding? The same way I respect Cde (Emmerson) Mnangagwa and Cde (Phelekezela) Mphoko, it is the offices that I respect not the individuals. And right now I am made to now think that some of these guys who are sitting down with Mai Mujuru have all along been belonging to a faction and they were not party people.

And the other issue is that who was the brains behind this (putschist agenda)? It was her husband the late General (Solomon) Mujuru who was the strategist, who was the driver of this. He is no more, unfortunately. So who can replace him? No one. So you know when a project has a strategist and the strategist is not there, why continue with it?

You are in a war and the commander is not there, he knows the route, do you continue with the war or you abandon the struggle? And if you can’t beat them you join them and you surrender. But there is nothing significant, these are people who had been empowered by the President. They had worked for the President all these years and it is confusing to say only after 35 years or more they are saying they did not know the President was this kind of person.

But you were part of the decisions he made and you endorsed them. You were part of the people who made the decision in making Mai Mujuru the Vice President from Secretary of Production to accommodate gender. So if equally the President makes a decision to appoint Mphoko and Mnangagwa as Vice Presidents, if you are true comrades why don’t you support that?

And who of the chairpersons that were suspended or expelled belong to People First? None of them, and I can tell you none of them will ever join People First, I know it. (Ray) Kaukonde the other day said he was not People First. They like name dropping. Where is the membership card? It is the only political party or institution that expels somebody who is not a member. I was expelled and I don’t have a membership card, I don’t have the constitution.

So what about those who are going to become members? What are you going to do with them? You are talking about Zanu-PF being unconstitutional in removing you, what about me without a card who is not a member? Why would you expel me?

TZ: So now what becomes of Themba Mliswa? The political person?

TM: I am off, I am focusing on the youth right now in moving forward because whatever money I had earmarked for the constituency is money that I am now putting into the youth because I did not go into politics to make money, I went into politics to serve people. With the little that I get from my business interests I would allocate a bit in terms of Corporate Social Responsibility to Hurungwe West and so forth.

TZ: And perhaps, Zifa in the meantime – we have seen reports linking you there. Are you interested?

TM: I was the former chairman of Dynamos Football Club which is the biggest club. I am a former fitness coach for the national team. I was once fitness coach for CAPs United. I equally have a degree in Sports and Fitness Studies. So, yes if at all the country was serious about sport that’s probably something that I would want to do. But I would never do it.

First of all, the councillors who vote for Zifa, there has already been a lot of vote buying. I mean how can you Tichaona have chairpersons already endorsing a candidate before they even have their own provincial meetings to do that? You know for me these are the people who should be expelled and suspended not us chairpersons because you are making a decision without the mandate of the people.

So it’s based on you being bribed because how do you then say this province has endorsed (Philip) Chiyangwa? Is it you or as an individual or it’s the province? If it’s the province where did you sit down and endorse him? And if I were the Minister (of Sport and Recreation) right now I would call these elections off. The reason why, Zifa has a lot of debt. Let the Government get in through the Sports and Recreation Act, set up an interim committee and clean Zifa out, take care of the debt. And the elections are only two years, what is the point of having somebody run this for two years? …And our minister must intervene and say let’s have people who are football-oriented get involved.

I would never get involved in the running of sport in this country for as long as the Government does not allocate a substantial amount of money because Government has got to be the biggest shareholder in the development of sport.

So the current sports policies right now do not resonate and do not come into my picture, as somebody who has studied sport, because there is no national policy. When you fail what are you measuring this against? There is no meaningful development happening, there are no tax incentives for companies to put money into sport. And Government again must be the biggest shareholder in sponsoring sport. No individual has $6 million and the very same mistake that they did with Cuthbert Dube is the very same mistake that they are doing with somebody who has money or supposedly has money.

TZ: Lastly, somebody once said that you are in the habit of starting fires anywhere and everywhere. Now can we not bet that sooner rather than later there is going to be another storm you will torch off?

TM: You see it depends what fires you’re talking about. One thing you have got to understand about me, whatever I’ve said has come to be true. So there are those who are also worried that I will expose them and if I think you are wrong you are corrupt. Why not be able to protect our country from corrupt individuals? To me there is no issue of fire. You know people have said a lot about me but why do I win elections? Why do I still have people who follow me despite the many things which you guys have written about me which are bad which if I wanted to sue I would be sitting down and buying a lot of houses but I decide not to. Has it ever made a negative impact for me on the electorate? It has never. Be fair in also saying but the very same man who you are saying is starting fires is very popular. Maybe the fires he is starting are the right fires where you have people warming themselves because they are cold. So is that a bad fire where people are warming themselves?