US$165m is nothing: Mliswa

THIS is the second and final part of the transcript of the address by zanu-pf Mashonaland West provincial chairman and Hurungwe West National Assembly member Cde Temba Mliswa to the media at the Media Centre in Harare on Tuesday.BILLY (RAUTENBACH) has also got into Parliament and already has corrupted some Members of Parliament. You were there when that whole committee was held of indigenisation, there were Members of Parliament who were paid to haggle the chairman even asked the chairman to stand up, can’t you see that? But some of us are not moved by that.

There were no noises because Members of Parliament had been paid to say what they needed to say. There are Members of Parliament who are in Billy’s constituency who had approached me that can we mediate between me and Billy and I said no!

“Can he give you a million dollars’, I said no! A million dollars is not US$165 million. But it’s either he gives it to me or he doesn’t but by now in business at the end of the day when money is not coming through you write it off, I wrote it off. I wrote it off.
And even if it came to me today  I will probably donate it to some charity organisation because I have also realised that the money is also dirty and I don’t want to be associated with the dirty money.

So I wrote that off and I have no interest in it, but I suppose he is guilty at the end of the day. You know when you don’t do good to somebody you feel the pressure. So I think if he is guilty he must feel guilty. So I don’t have time with Billy with his reputation that he has. I think time will certainly catch up with him.

You can bribe a few people but you cannot bribe the whole country. You cannot bribe the whole country. You can just bribe a few but you cannot bribe the whole country. You can lie to a few  but you cannot lie to the whole country. And I think time is catching up with him now.
I thank you.

Can I get questions?
Question: Just two things you said you want facts and you made serious accusations on us journalists. I think it would be fair in future that you present such facts than just attack us like that. And all of a sudden you say Billy Rautenbach is bad, this all right yes, but he was your business partner.
TM: Have you ever married a wife and you discover that she is unfaithful and a wife marries a husband and discovers that he is unfaithful, that is life. The key is to also say the unfaithful. So on the aspect of … it’s called quid pro quo. I have challenged The Herald to produce a statement of me receiving money, failure to which I think the journalists were being bribed.

You cannot talk about  money without  producing that, so its quid pro quo. And I challenged them that’s why I said so. Failure to which the journalists had other motives other than building. You cannot write this rubbish which I eeh I mean this is rubbish to anybody reading it. But money exchanges hands.

Even in the media it does. It’s not only the politicians who are corrupt, the media equally is. And these are traits of a corrupt journalist. I challenge the journalist, I say do the same tomorrow and show the country that Mliswa was paid so much.

That’s why he withdrew because he was in a desperate situation. That’s fair. You wrote it, show the evidence. You can’t write when you have got no evidence. I feel sorry for journalists, if I had to take this legally, this guy would never survive in his whole life. I have always said I feel sorry for you. Because you would not even afford a thing, lawyer. So why would I? You are my brother.

Question: At what point did it occur to you that Billy was corrupt?
TM: That’s a good question.

Question: . . .  because you are only starting to speak about it now in response to that.
TM: No, no, no you are wrong. Read the Financial Gazette. This is not new. That’s why I am saying there are some corrupt tendencies, go and get the thing Financial Gazette and I will give you when it was written. I spoke about it in the Financial Gazette. There is absolutely nothing new here.

Question: At what point?
TM: When I discovered he had sold the Unki concession. That’s when I went to him and I opted out. I had a choice either to remain in the shareholding but I then opted out.

But I said how can I remain being the shareholder when the shares have been bought? So the money you got can you give me my money? Is there anything wrong with that? And that is when I discovered that he was not honest.

And what I have done is to alert the country that you are dealing with a white criminal, crook. And it is my responsibility as a citizen who loves his country, as a legislator to say be careful with this man, look at his track record. There are no sour grapes in this. I have lived on with my life. I also want to warn my people against such a man.

Question: As a legislator why are you not reporting this to the police?
TM: What I am doing, on Wednesday I am asking the Minister of Foreign Affairs. The Minister of Mines, he is a very honest Minister of Mines I must say, and I am sure he will get to the bottom of this and when he dissolved the ZMDC boards the people who thought were untouchable. But I actually have faith with the Ministry of Mines that if I bring it up on Wednesday Question Time, he will take action.

Question: Just want  to find your position  where you stand as a Zanu-PF official as well as an MP with regards of the media, the so-called exiled media, SW Radio  Africa, Studio 7, Radio of the People and so forth. These issues we are talking about have been reported since 2003. As Zanu-PF we understand you went all out to actually to attack these pirate radio stations. Why did you not stand up against your colleagues in Zanu-PF and said no this is the media which is reporting factually, and only to come up …?
TM: No, I have never had any problems with the media only that The Herald has come out worse than Nehanda Radio. I think as long as the media report honestly from a credibility point of view it will gain the thing, the respect it deserves and it takes time, but stay in the game, you must keep playing.

And with time, no wonder why we called a thing called Press conference. No wonder why I was not comfortable giving an exclusive interview to The Herald. Why is it that I called for a Press conference? But it’s now up to those who heard the truth. No wonder why now people are buying three, four papers. Long back it was just The Herald, but then why?

Question: So you are saying The Herald is not saying the truth? That’s what the perception was with other media players that The Herald could be lying in some ways maybe covering up some ministers and some Government officials, but as a ZANU-PF official my question is why you were not coming up in the open?
TM: Can I be honest with you, Zanu-PF, there is no secret and there are faction in that party and I am sure the Minister of Information belongs to a certain faction so he will also attack another faction and I say this boldly without even anything. And if you also trace his record, he has also been implicated to a faction before it’s not a secret. So that is very clear and I will not mince my words on that. Don’t use the State media to attack the people appointed by the President at the end of the day. It is not good. It must stop at some point. Yesterday it was Mutasa. Now it’s Mliswa. Next thing it would be His Excellency.

Question: To which faction do you belong?
TM: I belong to the leadership that came out of the last congress held (laughter) and I look forward to working with the leadership that would also come out of the congress that we are going to have.
Question: We need some clarity. You said there is some US$165 million, was the net value of the transaction. Does it mean you were supposed to be given US$165 million for facilitating?

TM: Let’s not use the word facilitation. It is shareholding. I did not go for facilitation. My legal papers talk about shareholding, but I opted out of the business. In opting out of the business, what is the value of the company? Chisumbanje said was US$600 million, so what is 10 percent of US$600 million? So that is how I reached those figures.

Question: Just maybe out of interest are you at liberty to include some of the ministers whom you take in order to have those deals authorised, did they only provide  the services as  Government officials or they also charge consultation  fees?
TM: No you have to understand. When I operate as a businessman I expect three things in my transactions as a businessman.
First of all, there is an aspect of an allowance I get. There is shareholding and there is success fee. So I haven’t even touched the success fee, this is nothing as compared to success fee. So there is the success fee on the project at the end of the day. So those are the three stages which any businessman would pursue.

The allowance is for you running out, petrol, phone calls and so forth. And yes to begin with they used to pay me. Well, but I remember meeting a certain Indian saying, are you dealing with Billy and I said yes.

He said when you are dealing with Billy you must do one thing, show him the door but don’t open the door for him until he pays. Just show him the door but don’t open the door for him until he pays. And I remember that Indian vividly.

So basically I have never known of a scandal where one is entitled to what they deserve and when he calls for it, as I have told you I have written it off. February 2011 we were supposed to meet to sit down. He didn’t come, he sent eh, he had asked Minister Mutasa, he told me can you withdraw, can you also write a letter

I said I  have  written a letter, he said can you also write a letter which clearly shows and I said to the lawyer can you draft the letter, sign the letter because  it was in very  good faith but they never happened and I don’t see it happening. I am surprised it is being discussed.

I said earlier on let’s separate the issues. The issue of complying and the issue of business transaction. If I had been able to separate those two, this article could not have been out. He must comply and I am hoping in Parliament on Wednesday the question would be asked, when is he going to comply?

Question: Your company Saltlakes had a debt written off . . .  
TM: Firstly, I never got 12 point something million dollars. I would not be sitting here with you. And I would like someone to prove that the Reserve Bank made a stop order of 12 point something million dollars.

Question: How much did you get?
TM: We were supposed to get the equivalent of that in Zim dollars and the inflation was up and was used to buy tobacco.
So it would be managed from that point  that  here is to facilitate to buy  tobacco  and  would be able to pay the money back in Zim dollars, but we also  had a clause in the  agreement that can  also can pay the money in Zim dollars and we are sticking to  paying it in Zim dollars.
Question: Why in Zim dollars?

TM: That is what is there.
Question: How much did you get? You did not get the 12,5 million dollars.
TM: No we didn’t.

Question: How much?
TM: Inflation, at that point in time I think in Zim dollars probably equivalent to 5 million 5,8. But then you have to export the tobacco. Failure to export the tobacco, you pay back in Zim. If you want me to furnish you with the copy of the agreement I, yes there is a clause that says that. I am exercising that clause in the agreement.

Question: So how did you have it written off?
TM: It was not written off. I think I have just told you. It was never written off. There is a company that owes money to CBZ which did borrow us money. As the company we are also owed monies by farmers which is much more than what we owe.

Question: So you will pay in Zim dollars?
TM: CBZ will pay in US because we took money in US. But Reserve Bank there is a clause. If CBZ had a clause for us to pay in US, in Zim dollars would also stick to that clause.

Question: How much money do you owe?
TM: Off the top of my head I can’t tell but we owe money.

Question: Do you believe that you are also untouchable
TM:  I think I have also told you how can I be untouchable, when I am being harassed. I have an agreement and I have to finish with the agreement. It’s unfair to say to you. When I am responding to you on matters of my company when I am saying to you there is a clause.
You sign an agreement. Failure to export in time you pay back in Zim dollars. So how does that make me untouchable? I am not the one who controls the currency in this country. And the thing the Zim dollar would come back, I don’t know when. So I don’t know my brother when you say I am untouchable, I am responding to you as it is.

Question: On your deals with Billy was there any paperwork considering the amount involved?
TM: I think I told you when I started  that most of the transactions I get involved in, I am a man who believes in God, who believes in his word and Billy, we were very clear. I am a politician at the end of the day. I am on the sanctions list and we agreed that there would be no mention of me anywhere because of that. But then it sounds but I would then prove to you that I also used to thing pull down as a director at that company. So is there evidence that I used to draw down and is there evidence that a 32- tonne truck used to go to my farm and leave tyres? Yes.

Question:  You mentioned the Minister of Information used the media to attack you, why?
TM: I did not say. Can I be honest with you I am no longer Temba Mliswa as a Member of Parliament, I am a provincial chairman and there is an upcoming congress.

And probably I don’t toe lines of things factions and I don’t toe line of a faction I know  of a leadership that is elected at the congress that I work with. So in the thick of things, yes it’s no secret that the Minister of Information was once said to belong to the Mnangagwa faction. It’s not a secret. He was involved in that Tsholotsho issue. If you want you can actually go and research. Why do you want to use me to tell you when you know it? Write the things you know which are there already.

Question: (inaudible)
TM:  Mr Mnangagwa was working with Billy and John Bredenkamp at the time. If you can Google that, you got all the information. I am surprised no one ever dared write anything about Billy, are you telling me he never passed the brown envelopes on the media houses? Surely, one should be able to report correctly about Billy, who he is.

Question: (inaudible)
TM: If I am a legislator and I talk about us driving the anti-corruption, I must be in the forefront of practising that too. I cannot be in Parliament and say guys can you account what I am not able to account. Any other questions?
Thank you gentlemen. I thank you.